300 Days At Sea Tournament - Official Thread |
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Redbird
 
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Ok, we're about to start the 300 Days At Sea tournament. This will be the official thread to talk about the tournament - please let the old thread die.
Like in previous tournaments, we will be matching songs up one against another and conducting polls to see which one HNN members like the best. The winners go on to the next round and the losers are cast aside. In the end, there will be a single winner of the tourmanent. New: Unlike in past tournaments, please reply to each thread and state your preferences in addition to voting in the poll. If there is a tie in the poll vote, then I will give one extra day for everyone who hasn't already to post their choice in the match thread. At the end of that day, I will count up only the post votes (not including my own) and use this to break the tie. If there is still a tie, then I will count my own voice vote as the final tiebreaker. The Songs: 15 songs will be automatically be included in the first round: Beautiful Ride Higher Ground Stop The Fire Save A Little Piece Of Tomorrow Everything Changes Do Something That Scares You The Good Ship Moon Turn The Compass Round Burning To Love I'd Rather Be Until The Race is Run Stay Precious Thing Over You When The Music Stops In addition, two songs will have a play-in match to get into the first round: You're A Rainbow He's Spiritual
Posted on: 2011/11/28 16:56
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Re: 300 Days At Sea Tournament - Official Thread |
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The Jasmine Flower
 
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What do you do with people who write something like "I like song XY better" or even "I like song XY"? You don't know if they have even voted.
Posted on: 2011/11/28 20:47
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Re: 300 Days At Sea Tournament - Official Thread |
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Redbird
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Quote:
I'd count those as voice votes for the tiebreaker, yes. Doesn't really matter if they voted in the actual poll. I'd hope they would, but if someone missed a vote and only got back in time for the tiebreaker on the last day, I think that's a perfectly fine way to break a tie.
Posted on: 2011/11/28 20:52
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Re: 300 Days At Sea Tournament - Official Thread |
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Redbird
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Just as a head's-up, new matches are likely to start Mondays and Wednesdays, with two going on at any one time. I'd like to get back a little closer to the faster feel of the early tournaments while still giving everyone enough time to make their decision.
So the first match of round 1 will start tomorrow.
Posted on: 2011/11/29 17:19
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The Jasmine Flower
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Also think of the holiday season (last week in old year, first week in new year). Probably do not start polls in that time.
Posted on: 2011/11/29 17:22
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Re: 300 Days At Sea Tournament - Official Thread |
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Redbird
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We may have a Christmas/New Year break or extend polls a little longer during that time.
If we also did polls on Fridays, we could get through the first round before then and then take a break before round 2. Or we could just let the last poll or two go on through the break.
Posted on: 2011/11/29 17:25
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Re: 300 Days At Sea Tournament - Official Thread |
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Redbird
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I should probably also mention that the first-round pairings are not random this time. Later round pairings will work as in previous tournaments (ie based on vote percentage of previous round), but I hand-picked the first-round ones.
In addition to trying to keep the likely strongest songs away from each other in the first round (never 100% possible), I also have tried to match songs that have something in common, as Gerd seems to have picked up on already with the first match.
Posted on: 2011/11/30 23:19
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Re: 300 Days At Sea Tournament - Official Thread |
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Redbird
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The final two matches of the first round will begin next Monday and Wednesday. In light of the holiday season, they'll last for two weeks instead of one and we'll start up the second round of the tournament in January.
Posted on: 2011/12/16 17:49
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Re: 300 Days At Sea Tournament - Official Thread |
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HNN Forums Admin
 
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Good. I'm waiting for it !
Posted on: 2011/12/16 19:41
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Re: 300 Days At Sea Tournament - Official Thread |
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Redbird
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Round 1 is complete. The Quarterfinals will start tomorrow!
Posted on: 2012/1/8 20:45
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Re: 300 Days At Sea Tournament - Official Thread |
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Redbird
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Round 1 Results:
Stop The Fire - 4 - 27% Save A Little Piece Of Tomorrow - 11 - 73% Everything Changes - 14 - 82% When The Music Stops - 3 - 18% I'd Rather Be - 6 - 43% Until The Race Is Run - 8 - 57% Do Something That Scares You - 12 - 86% Over You - 2 - 14% The Good Ship Moon - 8 - 57% Turn The Compass Round - 6 - 43% Beautiful Ride - 13 - 76% You're A Rainbow - 4 - 24% Higher Ground - 10 - 59% Burning To Love - 7 - 41% Stay - 11 - 85% Precious Thing - 2 - 15%
Posted on: 2012/1/9 16:11
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Re: 300 Days At Sea Tournament - Official Thread |
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The Jasmine Flower
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Oh, Until The Race Is Run and The Good Ship Moon have the same percentage! What do you do to rank both songs? Flip a coin?
Posted on: 2012/1/9 16:14
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Re: 300 Days At Sea Tournament - Official Thread |
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Redbird
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Quote:
Yep. I'll use www.random.org.
Posted on: 2012/1/9 16:43
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Re: 300 Days At Sea Tournament - Official Thread |
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The Jasmine Flower
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I don't understand this tiebreaker rule:
Quote:
Example: (To make it not too complicated, post votes already without Cassander's choice) Result after one week: Song A gets 10 poll votes and 3 post votes. Song B gets 10 poll votes and 5 post votes. Then B does not win because of 3:5, but there will still be an extra day? And then one person votes for A (both poll and post), with the ending result: Song A gets 11 poll votes and 4 post votes. Song B gets 10 poll votes and 5 post votes. Then B wins then because of 4:5, but not A because of 11:10, or A because of 1:0 (only extra day)? Or two persons voted for A (both poll and post), with the ending result: Song A gets 12 poll votes and 5 post votes. Song B gets 10 poll votes and 5 post votes. Then A does not win by 12:10, or by 2:0, but Cassander's choice decides, even if it is for B?
Posted on: 2012/1/31 21:33
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Re: 300 Days At Sea Tournament - Official Thread |
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HNN Forums Admin
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I think that the poll counts more. The voice votes are only counted if the tie remains.
Posted on: 2012/1/31 21:59
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Re: 300 Days At Sea Tournament - Official Thread |
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Redbird
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Quote:
That is correct. If the poll is tied, an extra day is added for post votes only. Quote:
B would win. Poll votes after the normal allotted time are not counted. There is a bug in the software that allows some votes after a poll has expired, unfortunately, but these should not be counted. The extra day of voting is for post votes only, not poll votes. Quote:
That is correct. The initial voting would be a tie. The post voting (including the extra day but not my own posted vote) would be a tie. And so I would choose the winner. The logic to counting my voice vote less than others' is that since I run the polls, it will always be easy for me to participate. If I'm posting the poll, I can easily post my choice. Everyone else kind of runs on the schedule I set, so I figure if one person's post vote should count less, it should be mine. I am considering extending the extra time for the tiebreaker (a week rather than a day either for post votes or perhaps for extra time in the poll votes) starting in the semifinals.
Posted on: 2012/1/31 22:08
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The Jasmine Flower
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Uh, I don't know if this is easy to understand. Well, I understand it now, but this will likely lead to discussions.
Posted on: 2012/1/31 22:15
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Re: 300 Days At Sea Tournament - Official Thread |
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The Jasmine Flower
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And Cassander, do you poll vote, or just post vote?
Posted on: 2012/1/31 22:17
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Re: 300 Days At Sea Tournament - Official Thread |
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Redbird
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Quote:
This is correct. However, if there is a tie in the poll vote, then it is discarded and only the voice vote matters then. And yes, Bernd, I also vote in the polls. One of the 6 poll votes for Everything Changes was mine. I have tried to explain everything as clearly as I can. I have also tried to make things as fair as I can. The voice vote tiebreaker was intended to allow people who do not post to participate, but slightly favor the preferences of those who also post in case of ties.
Posted on: 2012/1/31 22:26
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The Jasmine Flower
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Quote:
But why is there even a need for an extra day here? I think it does not make much sense to say there is a tie, then A wins 1:0 or 2:0 on that extra day, but still declare B as the winner. I'm not that happy with this rule. In the above example, I don't even see why an extra day is needed.
Posted on: 2012/2/1 16:37
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Redbird
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Quote:
The extra day is there to allow people who have not posted their votes to do so. Because the posted votes wouldn't necessarily matter unless there was a tie, I thought it would be nice to give people one extra day to post their vote in case they had just poll voted. And if someone else hadn't participated in the poll at all, then I saw no problem with hearing from them as well. I now think adding extra time is the best tiebreaker available, but I'd be inclined to add more than one day. Five days or a week sounds better. I'll probably chance the rules for the semifinals and finals but will, of course, announce the change ahead of the actual matches. Once the voting has started, I will stick to the rules I had announced as that's the only fair option.
Posted on: 2012/2/1 16:52
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The Jasmine Flower
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Well, if it were 10:10 and 5:5, I see a need for an extra day, but not if it is 10:10 and 3:5.
When someone does vote but not post his/her vote, it's his/her own fault, in my opinion. You use a tiebreaker when there is no need for it. I think this makes most sense (and I thought until yesterday this is the rule): - counting votes - if there is a tie, counting post votes - if there is still a tie, extra time with counting only post votes during that extra time (which will lead to the same result as counting all post votes including extra time) - if even then there is still a tie, then flip a coin or whatever. But this current tiebreaker is extremly confusing, in my opinion, given a song wins the extra time, but it is still declared as the loser, or with your vote first counting (votes), then not counting (posting votes), but in the end counting again as the final tiebreaker.
Posted on: 2012/2/1 17:15
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Re: 300 Days At Sea Tournament - Official Thread |
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Redbird
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Sorry for the confusion. I tried to make everything clear when I explained the tiebreaker rules in this thread originally.
And as I said, I gave the extra day so that people who were interested could vote. And in the current case, to be fair, if my vote were included, the posted vote would still be tied, so the extra time does make sense. Not counting my vote should be the last tiebreaker (in lieu of a coinflip, essentially). I may chuck the entire posted vote tiebreaker idea, though I do like people posting their votes. The more discussion in these threads, even if it's just people saying why they vote for what, the better, in my opinion.
Posted on: 2012/2/1 17:23
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The Jasmine Flower
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No doubt, the posted vote tiebreaker is a good idea!
But 10:10 and 3:5 and there IS already a winner. People have enough time to vote and to post their votes. And people can still post their votes and discuss their decisions even after the winner is declared.
Posted on: 2012/2/1 17:41
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Re: 300 Days At Sea Tournament - Official Thread |
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Redbird
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Well, one problem with a non-posted vote tiebreaker is that a mystery vote could break the tie and that's just not very fun.
I could perhaps use posted votes (including mine) as a tiebreaker, and if it's still a tie, go another week.
Posted on: 2012/2/2 13:50
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